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Travis: Tonight’s album: Horses, the debut album from Patti Smith, released in 1975. Considered by some to be the first punk album, as it beat the Ramones to the punch by a few months, give or take whether or not one considers Iggy and the Stooges’ Raw Power or something by the New York Dolls punk or proto-punk. A scorching blend of amateurish garage rock, free jazz improvisation, Beat poetry, and a ton of youthful energy, Horses kicked the ass of the stale rock intelligentsia upon its release. From it’s striking opening lines, “Jesus died for somebody’s sins, but not mine,” to the iconic cover photo by Robert Mapplethorpe, this was an album that felt, and was, very important. I have my opinions on the matter, but first I’d like to hear your thoughts. It felt and was important, but is it good?

Tyler: That’s an apt question.  Throughout my listens, I had moments where I wondered whether I was feeling more respect than affection for the music.  I mean, objectively, it sounds great, it rocks hard, it’s hella confident—there are many reasons to hold Horses in high regard.  Mad props, Patti Smith.  It’s a landmark.

Do I enjoy the hell out of listening to it, now?  That’s a question.

I thought over whether time and place affected my reactions.  Today I had a long sunny drive, and it didn’t quite jibe.

Other times, I felt the heft of it a little closer to my chest.  I’m conflicted.

Robert Mapplethorpe: caused major controversy in Cincinnati circa ’89/90 due to a planned exhibition including Piss Christ.

Travis: It’s definitely a beast. A work of art, not meant for easy listening. Full disclosure: I love this shit, but also, I could see how someone could hear a lot of it and want to throw it across the room. By my count there is one (1) enjoyable standard structure, normal-length rock song on this album, side one closer “Free Money.” “Free Money” I think is pretty irresistible, where the lyrical pretensions are subsumed by a driving cyclone of piano and guitar. There’s a catchy chorus, a recognizable riff, and it’s never really subverted as it is in other places. That’s probably why “Free Money” was the song from the album a ton of young upstart punk bands with female singers covered.

I think Piss Christ was a different guy, but I remember the TV movie about the controversy starring James Woods as the museum guy who wanted that Mapplethorpe publicity.

Tyler: James Woods!  If only the FBI had heeded his warnings before September 11th.

Travis: Mapplethorpe had sexy gay photos, nothing nearly as out there as Piss Christ.

But anyway, Piss Christ is somehow NOT a lyric or song on Horses, by Patti Smith.

She did not shy away from lyrical controversy, as a since cut-from-streaming-services track on her third album, Easter, would later prove.

That being the ill-advised “Rock N Roll N-word.”

Tyler: Oh boy.

Travis: Right there on the album with the Springsteen collab “Because the Night”!

Tyler: I wonder what Bruce thought about that.

Travis: As a long-standing Van Morrison fan (minus recent idiocy) what do you think of Patti’s reshaping of Them’s “Gloria” as the album opener?

Tyler: I dig it.  It’s a ballsy move and they play it well.

Really, I spent a lot of time being impressed by what I heard.  The question that stuck with me is, how often and under what circumstances would I want to hear, say, “Birdland.”  Now, “Birdland” is great and weird in equal measure.  I like both great and weird.

Travis: Of the two longer pieces on the album, to me “Birdland” is the lesser of the two. It’s got a lot of attitude and cool-sounding nonsense going on. It’s one of those more, I’m glad it’s there and they felt confident enough to do it on their first album than something I thoroughly enjoy listening to. If I have the album on in the background, I don’t skip it, but if I’m skipping through to hear my faves, it’s not at the top of the list for me.

“Land,” on the other hand, give me that shit all day every day.

Both “Land” and their take on “Gloria” were apparently the big heights of their early live show, and were fully-formed by the time they got into the studio through lots of onstage improvisation as to what did and didn’t work.

“They” being the Patti Smith Group, Lenny Kaye (the record collector and critic who devised the Nuggets series of early garage rock compilation) on guitar, Ivan Kral, a Czech classical composer on bass, Jay Dee Daugherty on drums, and Richard Sohl on piano. Some songwriting direction and musical help was given by Smith’s boyfriend at the time, Allen Lanier of Blue Oyster Cult (who, it should be noted, should not be relegated to a cowbell joke from SNL).

I should also add that Horses was produced by erstwhile Velvet Underground genius John Cale, who definitely got more out of the group than any producer did after, because he didn’t sand off any of the edges or have them fix all the mistakes.

Tyler: The Velvet influence is clear throughout, and I don’t even know the Underground that well.  Was Smith involved with Lou Reed earlier in their careers?

A recent Liz Phair song called “Hey Lou” imagines a monologue delivered by one of Reed’s partners, and I believe it was Smith.

Liz Phair: artist who would not exist without this album.  Just like, essentially, any female rock musician who came after it.

Travis: I don’t think they were ever in a relationship, but they were definitely friends. She was around the downtown art scene well before she was a musician, as a poet. She was also involved with playwright/handsome man Sam Shepard for a while.

Yeah, I think it’s pretty hard to deny the importance of this album in breaking barriers, giving women in rock an alternative example. She presented herself androgynously, often wrote from a male or genderless perspective, sang and strutted with the attitude of a thousand lesser dudes.

While Debbie Harry both embraced and subverted traditional femininity in the same scene, Smith did something entirely different.

Also I’d say the sexual frankness of the lyrics is even beyond what any men at the time were trying, either.

Tyler: I thought of Hynde and PJ Harvey.  Onetime cool band Sleater-Kinney sprung to mind, as well.

Travis: Definitely. I know Patti Smith’s lyrical style was a huge influence on early R.E.M., and this album was one that Morrissey and Marr bonded over a lot when they were putting the Smiths together. “The Hand That Rocks the Cradle” basically uses the melody from “Kimberly” on this album.

Tyler: Thinking on Phair, I don’t think she can tackle Exile On Main St., however amorphously, if Smith doesn’t take on “Gloria.”

Travis: That makes a lot of sense. For what it’s worth, I think she genuinely loves “Gloria” and “Land of 1000 Dances” and quoting them as part of larger pieces is as much celebration as it is subversion.

Tyler: Oh, I agree.  I don’t think there’s a lick of irony in either performance.

This is a rock ’n roll album to the core.  There’s respect there.

The gender inversion of a woman singing “Gloria” is pretty nifty, it should be noted.

Travis: I don’t know if she saw herself as a carrier of tradition or something new or different or whatever, but there are little quotes and homages all over the album to other artists as well. “Elegie” is about Jimi Hendrix, “Break it Up” is a dream she had while visiting Paris about seeing Jim Morrison at his own grave.

On “Gloria:” what a way to start your first album as a bunch of nobodies, huh?

For lack of a better way to put it, it’s like “sup, fuckers, we’re here.”

Tyler: I mean, wasn’t “Gloria” the song every dude or dude’s older brother tried to play in their garage in a high school band?

Talk about kicking everyone’s ass to the side.

Travis: Pretty sure my dad’s garage band The Vulcans played that along with “Wild Thing” and “The Little Black Egg”.

Tyler: I wonder what Van thought of it.  Given what he’s revealed about his already-cranky persona in recent years, I think all bad reactions are on the table.

Travis: Hopefully he had better thoughts in 1975. He was still making bangers then, he didn’t have much to be bitter about.

Tyler: His buddy E.C. probably disapproved.  Can’t have women asserting any kind of dominance.

Eric Clapton: noted abuser of another famous rock-scene Patti. Fuck that guy.  I’ll make asides about him being awful for as long as you’ll listen to “Land.”

Travis: Clapton is a gross human. It’s small comfort, but I rejoice that the best bands he was ever in, Cream and Derek and the Dominoes, he was never the best musician. Duane Allman, Ginger Baker, and Jack Bruce could all play their way around fake JJ Cale.

I think the cultural impact of Patti Smith at the time is underestimated now. Of course, there are the tons of artists influenced by this and her other albums and whose existence she helped pave the way for. But she was even victim to an iconic parody by the one cast member of Saturday Night Live it seems like everyone can still agree on, Gilda Radner (as Candy Slice).

Tyler: If Patti Smith is as cool as this album is, she reveled in being sent up by Gilda.

Travis: I’ve heard the next three albums. All have things to recommend along with some shortcomings. None are as good as Horses, but I think that’d be an unfair expectation.

The second album, Radio Ethiopia has two great songs on it, the brief opener “Ask the Angel” and the 10-minute centerpiece title track. The third album, Easter, is the one with “Because the Night,” which I think is a great song, but may turn some people off. It generally has a more polished sound than the first two, and beyond the aforementioned “Rock and Roll N-word” feels very safe for a Patti Smith record. The fourth album, Wave, has good songs but is produced by Todd Rundgren. I’ll just leave that at that.

Oh and Wave also has a good Patti Smithed cover of the Byrds’ “So You Want to Be (A Rock n Roll Star)” which transcends the Rundgrening.

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